Who was it said "entire nations will disappear"?Hugh, frater PJM
It's coming and when it does, people will not believe it, including the leaders in the Catholic Church who have facilitated its coming.
Hilary, I'm sorta assuming this was meant to help me understand why you think population shrinkage is bad.But what this clip has done is convince me that a shrinking population is good. That one woman as good as said that we need to increase the numbers of our younger generations so we can enslave them to the well-being of the elders. Why don't the elders look after their own well-being? I am one of them, by the way. Elders, I mean. And I don't need looking after. If I want help with something, I can always ask, but mostly I do just fine on my own.If "society" can only grow at the expense of the rights of the individual, then as an individual who values my rights above all else, I say let "society" die.Should I be packing for the return trip to Mars, now? ;)I meant to say previously...I've very much enjoyed your travelogue. You take wonderful pictures! Makes me wish I'd been there...
How well would you manage, really, without "society"? And for how long?
Chimera, you may be an elder, but how disabled are you? I'm only 34 but I recently recovered from a long illness. Without vigorous healthy people - not only to directly care for me, but to make the stuff that I use and that my caregivers used, I would quite possibly never have recovered, and then, probably eventually starved to death from neglect. You may think you can ask for help, but this indicates to me you don't need very much help. When I asked for help I had to compete with people's jobs, children, and selfcare. I was helped by some heroically self-sacrificing people and maybe there will be enough vocations to take care of the huge numbers of old people we are about to have, and we should pray for that, but counting on it happening is pretty damn stupid.As people get older they need help with *every aspect of daily life.* It was a grace that I was allowed a window into this reality as a comparatively young woman because it requires me to face up to the reality of demographic winter. It is not just about taxes. It is about rides to go shopping, help putting heavy groceries away, being nagged at by young people who love you to eat enough when your appetite has vanished, someone to check up on you when you might have fallen and broken something. Paid carers cannot perform these tasks adequately for the elderly anymore than they can replace mothers in the hearts of children. We can't pay for it either but that is a secondary consideration. If only people recognized that the economic consequences are secondary people would have clearer vision about what has gone so terribly wrong. - Karen
"How well would you manage, really, without 'society'?"Well, that actually depends on the context of society's role in my life. I don't mind society's being there. I would mind tremendously if it tried to move in with me and take over my life. I like to be asked before anyone decides I need their interference, however well meant.You could picture me, if you will, like the little old guy who was caught beating the stuffing out of a boy scout on a busy streetcorner. When he got dragged up in front of the judge, he was asked why he had attacked the kid, when the court had heard the kid say he was only trying to help the guy cross the street. The LOM looked the judge straight in the eye and said, "I had already crossed the street. The kid was dragging me back!"Karen, my point was not that I never need help. Everyone needs help at one time or another. My point was that I want people to wait for me to tell them about it before they decide I need it. FYI, I have scoliosis (double twist -- my spine could open a super-sized bottle of champaigne), hip and knee problems, psoriasis, and a wonky heart. I definitely have limitations, but who doesn't? I never use the word "disabled" about myself. I do what I can, and I don't worry about what I can't.
And when there is no one to help you? And you can't just not worry, because if you don't get the help, you don't eat? What then? - Karen
Then I guess I wouldn't eat. But that's not likely to happen. If it does, however, I'll deal with it at the time. I'm certainly not going to engage in stressing myself out by anticipating disaster.I can almost hear your thoughts: But you could die if no one looks after you!Yes, that is certainly possible. But that would be my problem, then, wouldn't it? Not yours. Not anyone's. Not even mine, really. Death is part of the cycle of life. We all come to it eventually. Nothing to fear.
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