Wednesday, November 25, 2009

Seeds of the Church

No matter where you stand on the whole Muzzie thing, one thing is for sure. There is going to be no shortage of opportunities for the quick ticket in the near future.


Update:

Doh! He was an Orthodox. So, being a member of the wrong church, couldn't be saved.

"...so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church." (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)


Heh.

They really hate that.

12 comments:

BillyHW said...

Patriarch Kirill did not mention directly Sysoyev's work among Muslims, and warned against jumping to rash conclusions.

"For now the names of the criminals are not known, and I ask all to refrain from any hasty accusations or sharp judgments against particular persons or groups," Kirill said. He called on clergy and laity "not to forget that we are called by God to preserve peace among ourselves".

Russian religious leaders and political officials, including President Dmitry Medvedev, have spoken in recent months of Russia's unique religious harmony.

Yup. Sure sounds like you have a unique sort of religious harmony there.

Brother André Marie, M.I.C.M. said...

Thanks for the link, Hilary. By the way, I'm on my way to Rome right now (on layover at Dulles International in DC). This time, another Brother is with me. Maybe we'll see you at the Mass at Santa Trinita dei Pellegrini?

God bless you.

Hilary Jane Margaret White said...

Oh hey! I remember you.

Cool. Look forward to seeing y'all.

Constantine said...

Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. All the categorical strength and point of this aphorism lies in its tautology. Outside the Church there is no salvation, because salvation is the Church" (G. Florovsky, "Sobornost: the Catholicity of the Church", in The Church of God, p. 53).

Does it therefore follow that anyone who is not visibly within the Church is necessarily damned? Of course not; still less does it follow that everyone who is visibly within the Church is necessarily saved. As Augustine wisely remarked: "How many sheep there are without, how many wolves within!" (Homilies on John, 45, 12) While there is no division between a "visible" and an "invisible Church", yet there may be members of the Church who are not visibly such, but whose membership is known to God alone. If anyone is saved, he must in some sense be a member of the Church; in what sense, we cannot always say.

BillyHW said...

Are all heathen cultures this humourless, Hilary?

Andrew said...

So the pope meant outside of salvation there is no salvation?

If it really is tautological, then the other claim above, "...still less does it follow that everyone who is visibly within the Church is necessarily saved" must mean, "...still less does it follow that everyone who is visibly within salvation is necessarily saved."

Contradiction?

Granted, the statement: "..yet there may be members of the Church who are not visibly such, but whose membership is known to God alone." is plausible enough, but if such folks really are saved in a way known only to God, then how can there be any grounds for claiming God fails to offer them the Catholic Faith (without which, the Athanasian Creed tells us, it is impossible to please God)? Perhaps this happens at the moment of death and invisible to others. And maybe God offers unbaptized men of goodwill baptism. Why not? It would be better to ignore fallible opinions than subordinate infallible statements to them.

Perhaps this blogger got it wrong about this priest, but that doesn't mean she got it wrong about this pope.

Andrew said...

By the way,

A father of three risking his life by trying to convert Muslims probably doesn't subscribe to G. Florovsky's opinions either.

Hilary Jane Margaret White said...

Billy,

I've always thought that if I were founding a religious order, or a religion for that matter, one of my requirements for entry would be that they have to get the joke.

Plodding earnestness would get you blackballed immediately.

God may love a bore, but no one should be expected to live with one.

jorge said...

ive been a loyal reader, but im not sure if theres supposed to be anythin funny about the murder of a priest in his own church

BillyHW said...

You're just not getting it, George.

Hilary Jane Margaret White said...

Don't worry jorge, I'm sure it was my usual grim humourless laugh.

And it's true the guy probably is in heaven and has had the last laugh.

Andrew said...

Wow Jorge, you rated a direct address! I had been a loyal reader of this blog for a while too (I thought it was because I found it hilarious, it turns out though
I don't get jokes after all.) but recently learned that bores like me ought to be tolerated by God alone.