Monday, November 15, 2010

Because it's just worked out so well everywhere else...

There's a new group for priests in Ireland.

Betcha can't guess what they want to do...

Oh, come on.


Full implementation of the vision and teaching of the Second Vatican Council, with special emphasis on:
#61550; the primacy of the individual conscience.
#61550; the status and active participation of all the baptised.
#61550; the task of establishing a Church where all believers will be treated as equal.

A redesigning of Ministry in the Church, in order to incorporate the gifts, wisdom and expertise of the entire faith community, male and female.

A re-structuring of the governing system of the Church, basing it on service rather than on power, and encouraging at every level a culture of consultation and transparency, particularly in the appointment of Church leaders.

A culture in which the local bishop and the priests relate to each other in a spirit of trust, support and generosity.

A re-evaluation of Catholic sexual teaching and practice that recognizes the profound mystery of human sexuality and the experience and wisdom of God’s people.

Promotion of peace, justice and the protection of God’s creation locally, nationally and globally.

Recognition that Church and State are separate and that while the Church must preach the message of the Gospel and try to live it authentically, the State has the task of enacting laws for all its citizens.

Liturgical celebrations that use rituals and language that are easily understood, inclusive and accessible to all.

Strengthening relationships with our fellow Christians and other faiths.

Full acceptance that the Spirit speaks through all people, including those of faiths other than Christian and those of no religious faith, so that the breath of the Spirit will flow more freely.

Go ahead.

Tell 'em what y'all think.

I won't stop you.

Brendan Hoban
Tel: 086 606 5055

But don't be mean. I think they know their revolution is over and they seem a little down about it.

The organiser described his type of Catholic as "an ageing and diminishing coterie of Vatican II aficionados huddling together for warmth"

oh... poor little guys...

So try to be nice, OK? Tell them about how great the Latin Mass is and how glad we all are the Good Pope Benedict has finally freed it for everyone to enjoy, and about how lots of Trads are so glad to be let out of the catacombs and about all the happy young people going to it, and how they are all getting married and having ten kids.

That'll cheer 'em up.





Martial Artist said...

Miss White,

Perhaps it would be too unkind of me to send an email to Mr. Hoban expressing some confusion as to their aims? I would explain that I was under the impression that they already have present in their midst the Church of Ireland, a constituent member of the Anglican Communion? It would seem to me, a recent convert from The Episcopal Church, that what they are describing has already been instituted in that ecclesial community.

Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer

"Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all of the unhappy people."—[the explanation of the poster titled [b]Demotivation[/b], from]

Tom Ryan said...

They're 40 years late with this silliness and foolish to try it after seeing it fail everywhere else.

Trads have had a tough time in Eire because they're up against reverent NovusOrdoism which doesn't drive people to the TLM the way a simple clown mass can. It's a fool's paradise like EWTN.
Half the churches I went to still used the altar rail, albeit with-gads!-"eucharistic ministers."

Leo said...

As an Irishman, I can only express sentiments of embarrassment and dismay upon reading the manifesto of the Association of Catholic Priests(Ireland).What must the generations, who endured dungeon, fire and sword to guard the Faith, be thinking. Saint Oliver Plunkett, pray for us.

Can we assume that the ACP will publicly state their adherence to Trent and Vatican I? They appear to have problems with Pope John XXIII'S 1962 Apostolic Constitution Veterum Sapientia forbidding attempts to supplant Latin as the language of the Church. Do they know that "in the formation of their consciences, the Christian faithful ought carefully to attend to the sacred and certain doctrine of the Church" (Dignitatis Humanae n.14)? Are they aware of the "distinction the Lord has made between the sacred ministers and the rest of God's People" (Lumen Gentium n. 32)and that "all of Christ's faithful, should be prompt to welcome in a spirit of Christian obedience the decisions the Sacred Pastors make as leaders and directors in the Church" (Lumen Gentium n. 37)? Just

The leaders of the ACP appear to have never read or either forgotten about Sacrosanctum Concilium which states that the Latin language was to be preserved in the Latin Rite (n. 36), the treasure of sacred music was to be preserved and fostered with great care (n. 114) and Gregorian Chant was to be given pride of place in liturgical services (n. 116). As all informed Catholics know, it issued no instruction whatsoever to make priests celebrate the Mass facing the congregation. Likewise for Communion in the hand, and many other appalling innovations concocted without consultation and now accepted unconsciously.

Over forty years of modernist slashing and burning have brought devastation to the vineyard. All the empirical evidence is there for those who care to see. It has fallen to Benedict to plant the seeds of restoration. When every Catholic can attend the Traditional Latin Mass and experience its sense of beauty, mystery, awe,transcendence,sacredness and reverence, then the liberation can be said to have begun.Then priests will get a real understanding of their irreplaceable ministry and the laity will start to fully develop a sense of uplifting and fruitful worship of God. We've had enough of the cult of man.

"What we previously knew only in theory has become for us a practical experience: the Church stands and falls with the liturgy"- Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger at Fontgombault Abbey in 2001.

Anonymous said...

I think that a wiser and, dare I say, more graceful approach would be to wish these people success, at least in attaining common goals, such as the sanctification of our lives.

In a day and age when more and more Irish are becoming Buddhists, agnostics, and Muslims, I question how important it is that we tear each other down over what, in the grand scheme of things, are trifles, rather than working for the common good.

Nor am I convinced that the Counter-Revolution is quite the success it is feted as in these pages. Older priest friends of mine tell me that to their consternation, the intellectual standards among the traditionalist clergy are not nearly near what used to be the norm.

The only reason Franco won the Spanish Civil War was that the Spanish Left, which far outnumbered his forces, was more keen to slaughter each other than his men. At times the Stalinists and Trotskyites would arrange cease-fires with the Nationalists so as to indulge in their fratricidal compulsions. Look where that got them.

Sometimes I question whether Ms. White is not posting tongue in cheek, hoping to elicit remonstrations. Is she?


HJW said...



Dymphna said...

Maybe when the last Baby Boomer dies this VatII stuff will die off with them.

Martial Artist said...


I don't think it will necessarily require that all the Baby Boomers need die before then. I am only a half year their elder and count a number of them my friends (even my sponsor into the Church), and many of them are equally ready to see an end to what you refer to as the "VatII stuff." But, then again, inasmuch as human nature exists, with its concomitant concupiscence, I don't think we should expect various heresies and heterodoxy to disappear. We need to pray that their eyes will be opened, and remain alert to their manoeuvres so as not to leave their perpetual whinging unanswered.

Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer

Dan said...

Jose is, I'm afraid, indulging in wishful thinking if he finds the issues above to be "trifles". Creating a "Church where all believers will be treated as equals" is exactly the kind of idea which is far from trifling - if it means that all religions are pleasing to God. Since the Catholic Church is the one, true Church founded by Jesus Christ while He lived on earth it would seem that we owe it to our Creator to become a visible member of the organization He set up.

"The primacy of the individual conscience"??? And what, Jose, has that concept given us in the past? Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and Rembert Weakland, to name but a few. Every Catholic should reject the concept of the "primacy of the individual conscience" and keep going to Confession to be forgiven, in Christ's name, by a solid, good priest.

The rest of the list is the usual namby-pamby goo that makes one dash for the sick-bag. As such it is unworthy of comment.

By the way: the jab at Franco was as expected as it was tiresome. If one wishes to write intelligently about the Spanish Civil War then one owes it to ones self to study the histoical facts and not the grotesquely unhistorical leftist propaganda that has raised the Spanish Black Legend to almost comical heights. And, forgive me: but your Spanish Christian name is hardly a guarantee that you understand that historical time better than a non-Spaniard. I know of no other author who understood historical Spain better than Irish/American William Thomas Walsh, whose majesterial histories like ISABELLA OF SPAIN and PHILIP II are like draughts of fresh, clean, sparkling water amidst the usual bilge spewed by the worshippers of Zapatero, et al.

Leo said...

I agree with Tom Ryan that Ireland has avoided the worst examples of liturgical sacrilege. That hasn't prevented many of the rapidly diminishing number of those who do go to Mass on Sunday being imperceptibly drawn into the spiritual shallows by the casual, sloppy, banal, smiley, congregation-centred liturgies that are sadly so common. Meet, greet and be merry it seems. The 1970's exhortations to be "relevant" and to "entertain" can only be remembered with anger, ridicule, or toe-curling embarassment. Believe me, the Irish have been subjected to "Kumbaya" and "Leaving on a Jet Plane" too.

In short, as Benedict has clearly identified, everything stands or falls on lex orandi, lex credendi. Tell someone that the Tridentine Mass is the only way out of the desert and you will be met by a dismissive or confused expression. And that's the observant Catholics. Forty years of thin watery gruel has left many Irish Catholics with a shallow faith, and in many cases, an appetite for dubious if not dangerous forms of religious entertainment.

Readers of the above blog posting have been given a very clear vision of some of the obstacles and distractions awaiting those of us Irish who wish to follow Benedict on the long road to restoration. No doubt there will be a few ambushes. Hostility, ignorance and lack of priests willing and able to say the Traditional Latin Mass are major impediments. The latter two are being overcome very slowly. The virtue of hope must lead to confidence that Divine Providence will protect and hasten this progress.

I suggest that all members and supporters of the Association of Catholic Priest (Ireland) give prayerful and lengthy consideration to the following words of Pius XII, of venerable memory:

"I am concerned about the confidence of the Virgin to the little Lucia of Fatima. The persistence of the Good Lady in the face of the danger that threatens the Church is a divine warning against the suicide that modification of the Faith, liturgy, theology and soul of the Church would represent.

I hear around me partisans of novelties who want to demolish the Holy Sanctuary,destroy the universal flame of the Church, reject her adornments and make her remorseful for her historical past. Well, my dear friend, I am convinced that the Church of Peter must affirm her past, or else she will dig her own tomb."

Brother André Marie said...

Hilary: Enjoy your gelato. You deserve it. Whatever you do, go to Old Bridge. It's the best.


Anonymous said...

Dan, sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it. You put words into my mouth, rebuke me for claims I never made, misquote me, write that you won't dignify my opinions with further comment and then do the exact opposite.

I try to be charitable, but sometimes it is not charitable to not say that which must be said. You're not at all a person to be taken seriously.


Hilary Jane Margaret White said...

OK then,

Bugger off now, there's a dear...