tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post5619973995840552247..comments2023-11-03T12:44:19.948+01:00Comments on Orwell's Picnic ~: NungazingHilary Jane Margaret Whitehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03771332473693479830noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-21931960763769375822012-08-23T15:34:12.876+02:002012-08-23T15:34:12.876+02:00Dear Miss White:
First of all, I want to ask for ...Dear Miss White:<br /><br />First of all, I want to ask for your forgiveness if what I wrote sounds overbearing or self-righteous. I did not mean it that way. English is not my mother tongue and sometimes it's difficult to find the right words in a foreign language.<br /><br />I certainly did not say (or at least did not mean) "well feelings aren't important, so it's your fault for giving in to them".<br /><br />I actually said it was a bad idea (and usually my fault) when I gave in to them. Maybe you disagree, but I don't think that's a good reason to attack me.<br /><br />You say "Easy, that is, until you've lived through year after year of emptiness, with nothing but a blank space where the Faith used to live and grow and bloom".<br /><br />Well, how do you know how many years of emptiness I've lived? I think you'd be surprised.<br /><br />You say: "It's a good thing that God understands that the heart is a crucial element in the Christian's life".<br /><br />That's true and I did not deny it. But firstly, the heart is something different and deeper than feelings. And secondly, feelings are not important per se, but only as a means to love. Christ commanded us to love God and one another, not to feel this way or that.<br /><br />You add that "the emotions are a faculty of the rational soul without which the life of the Faith dries up".<br /><br />I'd say God does not think that. If he did, he would not let the saints (such as Mother Teresa, Saint Therese of Lisieux and many others) live for decades without feeling those emotions. And he would not let you feel that way if that were true. Because he is your father and cares for you.<br /><br />If God takes away consoling feelings, it is to help us love him for Himself, and not for the rewards we migh obtain.<br /><br />I certainly don't mean to undervalue your suffering. It is because I respect it that I've shared what experience and reading taught me when I was in a similar situation.<br /><br />Again, please forgive any offense I might uncounciously have given or any discourtesy I may have committed.Brunohttp://infocatolica.com/blog/espadadedoblefilo.phpnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-13466678633646048962012-08-22T13:45:17.872+02:002012-08-22T13:45:17.872+02:00didn't realise I knew anyone in Michigan, let ...didn't realise I knew anyone in Michigan, let alone Someone.dfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-18840153625761241682012-08-22T00:43:33.120+02:002012-08-22T00:43:33.120+02:00All right, but I'm not calling you "fathe...All right, but I'm not calling you "father". <br /><br />It should be quite a party. The Gang is all going to be back from Parts Foreign, someone we know is coming over from Tranna, and another Someone will be visiting from Michigan. Hilary Jane Margaret Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03771332473693479830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-27992560960844080462012-08-21T23:35:08.425+02:002012-08-21T23:35:08.425+02:00I can't disagree with you more on several poin...I can't disagree with you more on several points - but the one I'll mention here is your blithe statement that "it's only too easy to <i>look</i> pious". I know people who have been trying to look pious for years and have yet to achieve it; several priests for example.<br /><br />That aside, I love the post, as I've always loved your writing. Glad to have been a reader all these years. And because I have been a regular reader, I've noticed patterns emerging, and this post puts me in mind of something you wrote (or maybe it was an email or telephone conversation) when you were in England, up North, and angrily not going to Mass, just before you decamped to Italy. Anyway, I have memory of that being a more depressing stage in your 'faith life' (you started it...). This is much preferable.<br /><br />Will be over in September, so will probably be in touch nearer the time.dfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-47476343686659356862012-08-21T05:37:30.485+02:002012-08-21T05:37:30.485+02:00God knows I could use some corporal works of mercy...God knows I could use some corporal works of mercy. AND AFTER, I WILL BUY YOU ALL DRINKS. - KarenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-75318192535101133072012-08-21T02:37:30.622+02:002012-08-21T02:37:30.622+02:00I've resisted commenting on this because I dou...I've resisted commenting on this because I doubted that I have anything useful to say but there's something which occurred to me as I was reflecting on your situation.<br /><br />I have also existed in an emotional dead-zone for quite some time. Being a loner my tendency has been to shut myself off from people. I usually prefer my own company. But I've noticed that the times when I have felt most alive have been when I've been around other people, engaging with them in a meaningful way.<br /><br />Modern life makes people vulnerable to feeling disengaged, alienated and lonely. But Christianity is a communal faith; it doesn't make sense for us to spend swathes of time on our own. I've tried to counteract my tendency for too much solitude by engaging in what people used to call the 'corporal works of mercy.' Not in some flag-waving social justicey way, but quietly and unobtrusively. And sometimes, when I'm visiting someone who is lonely or ill, I feel the presence of God manifesting itself though that interaction. I've also experienced the presence of God in providing hospitality to people.<br /><br />I suppose what I'm trying to say is that one antidote to feeling blank inside is to engage on a deeper level with people, face to face.<br /><br />Also, making oneself pray each day can cause a fissure to open up which lets God's grace in.<br /><br />These things have worked for me occasionally. <br /><br />Lydia<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-22893220474406994582012-08-20T23:39:29.641+02:002012-08-20T23:39:29.641+02:00Yeah, that's why I write stuff like this. Peop...Yeah, that's why I write stuff like this. People then tell me that they're experiencing it too, and I feel a little better. <br /><br />The Whateveritis has made me even more cranky than my naturally cranky temperament would make me. A pretty big factor at the moment is probably something as simple as the weather. It's been in the high 90s since June 19th. And not having a roommate is a drag. It's not the rent that bothers me, it's just having no social context. It doesn't seem to matter if I get up in the morning, or at five in the afternoon and stay up all night, leave the fridge door open, fail to clean the bathroom or spread my clothes all over the flat. A couple of friends of mine dropped in unexpectedly yesterday and it was only then that I realised it's been weeks since I had anyone over. I just sort of get into a state when all the days just blend together and I can't remember what time it is. We're not meant to live by ourselves. <br /><br />Going out to see the new Batman movie tomorrow in Rome with friends. It'll probably help. <br /><br />But I have also concluded, as Jon noted above, that the solution is between the pages of my Breviary. If the key to the Door to Narnia is anywhere, it's there. <br /><br />I'm just this evening, also horribly homesick for England. Spent WAY too much time poring and pining over photos of Cheshire and the Fam. Hilary Jane Margaret Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03771332473693479830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-14336169696065984542012-08-20T23:29:39.862+02:002012-08-20T23:29:39.862+02:00I have been going through a rather long period of ...I have been going through a rather long period of I don't know what. (Someone told me that it could be my own "Dark Night of the Soul" - but I am no St. John of the Cross.<br /><br />I keep going over things that I have regretted doing in my past and then finding something new that I had forgotten.<br /><br />Also, routine is driving me crazy.<br />So I have moved things around in the house all summer.<br /><br />I could go on - as I have already done in my head while writing this.<br /><br />I am glad (not on your situation) that it isn't only me who can feel bouts of whatever it is. Teresa B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15076392000073341695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-44940486777295621272012-08-20T21:50:01.171+02:002012-08-20T21:50:01.171+02:00My apologies, I was unaware you had a trademark on...My apologies, I was unaware you had a trademark on the term. A term, I might add, I've used since 2006 - years before I was aware of your blog. The Crescathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06117353945124506952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-73223636843348057982012-08-20T16:23:37.856+02:002012-08-20T16:23:37.856+02:00Did you imagine that I didn't mean "no an...Did you imagine that I didn't mean "no anonymous posts" when I said "no anonymous posts"?Hilary Jane Margaret Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03771332473693479830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-38221303646354876182012-08-19T23:07:14.789+02:002012-08-19T23:07:14.789+02:00I haven't the least interest in the "tort...I haven't the least interest in the "torture" argument, it being a peculiarity of American politics which concern me not at all. But starting an acquaintance with such a weird and obscure accusation certainly says a lot about your own obsessions. <br /><br />May I suggest that perhaps barging into someone's tea party, plonking yourself down and announcing loudly that you "ought to loathe" the hostess, but think you can just barely manage to tolerate her, isn't exactly going to win you any prizes for social grace. <br /><br />If you want to stick around, you are welcome to do so, I suppose. Maybe you'll learn some manners too, who knows. <br /><br />But if you want to continue to leave comments here, please be sure to read the commbox rules posted to the sidebar on the left. You will find that I do not have much patience for anonymous commenters. If you wish to post again, leave a real or plausible-sounding name or your comment will be deleted without further ado.<br /><br />Hilary Jane Margaret Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03771332473693479830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-28097163945744089872012-08-19T20:56:36.411+02:002012-08-19T20:56:36.411+02:00Dear Miss White,
I suspect you would loathe me if...Dear Miss White,<br /><br />I suspect you would loathe me if you knew me. After reading bits and pieces gone all over your website, I feel I OUGHT to loathe you. (I used to be an antiwar activist and your stance of hating Islam leaves me with the conclusion that you are likely one of those I call the "pro-torture people". I too disagree with the religion of Islam, but even so .... )<br /><br />Anyway, despite these major difference between us, there are other aspects of our characters where we are so alike. In many of these areas, you so much more so than me. You endured a hippy dip mother. I merely survived a ten-year marriage to a man much like your mother. But that led to me being that most awful of things -- a divorced protestant peacenik.<br /><br />Anyway, I too once daydreamed of being a nun. The past several days I've been missing going to church very much. Part of it is simply missing a good reason to play dress up. <br /><br />What I'm trying to say is, despite our differences, there are so much similarities that my heart is touched by this, by you. Despite my own problems with religion, despite my severe disapproval of some of your ideological stands, I find I am praying for you AND generally rooting for you AND, God help me, liking you.<br /><br />Peace to you, Miss White, and to everyone you love.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-32974394808810873162012-08-19T04:38:18.849+02:002012-08-19T04:38:18.849+02:00I WANT TO BUY YOU ALL A DRINK - KarenI WANT TO BUY YOU ALL A DRINK - KarenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-55194186014639387512012-08-19T04:34:01.779+02:002012-08-19T04:34:01.779+02:00A very moving post. Loss, and the accompanying no...A very moving post. Loss, and the accompanying nostalagia are a big part of the reason for the power of the idea (or, if you prefer, fact) of 'the Fall' in the Catholic, and other, religious traditions. Maybe the loss and longing are an intimation of a broader cosmic reality, rather than only a reaction to terribly trying individual circumstances?<br /><br />But no lecture - I just wish you peace.Paolonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-11772517016485795012012-08-19T02:11:59.484+02:002012-08-19T02:11:59.484+02:00Hilary,
This is why I love your blog-- your refre...Hilary,<br /><br />This is why I love your blog-- your refreshing honesty (not to mention that we seem to be of a very similar temperament-- introverted, inclined to depression, and intolerant of the world's b.s.). You always seem to say things that I think but haven't put into words.<br /><br />I too am struggling with loss of interest in God N Religion, and frankly someone telling me that I should just get over my feelings would just irritate the hell out of me. <br /><br />I don't know about you, but for me it's a feeling of isolation and loneliness, sort of being adrift in a sea and struggling to keep your head above water. I can only imagine how dealing with a serious illness and surgery would add to that.<br /><br />Thinking of you and wishing you peace, health, and yes, happiness.Karen Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02595488513595951006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-2614502209299872212012-08-18T23:30:13.564+02:002012-08-18T23:30:13.564+02:00Well, heck. I can't lecture my wife, otherwise...Well, heck. I can't lecture my wife, otherwise she locks me in the tower and has me beaten by monks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-37051060928130479702012-08-18T22:10:36.050+02:002012-08-18T22:10:36.050+02:00All those inclined to lecture are invited to go so...All those inclined to lecture are invited to go somewhere else. Hilary Jane Margaret Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03771332473693479830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-32437302879078174802012-08-18T20:13:54.743+02:002012-08-18T20:13:54.743+02:00Hilary,
As a Sibling of the Big C, I think I migh...Hilary,<br /><br />As a Sibling of the Big C, I think I might understand in a way these very sympathetic folks can't. <br /><br />You and I have both had cancers that affect our very identities as man and woman. Our lives have been changed in ways we can scarcely talk about. What was "normal" has been taken from us, and so many possibilities of life, things very intimate and private, are simply gone. <br /><br />As if that's not bad enough, the radiation decimates you in ways the doctors conveniently never conveyed. It leaves you feeling like Frodo after the Ring:<br />“No taste of food, no feel of water, no sound of wind, no memory of tree or grass or flower, no image of moon or star are left to me. I am naked in the dark."<br /><br />It blew me away to discover that this went double for the thing I felt I could rely on through the Nonsense - the consolation of religion. St John of the Cross may have been locked in a tower and beaten up by monks, but he was never radiated. Even so, my life-raft through this nightmare has been the Office. When I couldn't "stand to think about God n' Religion any more," I always felt that if I could pray (sometimes just read) just one Hour, God would pray to God for me, and I'd be off the hook. I must say it's worked. <br /><br />Little by little, just going through the motions has restored the "God-feeling." To use the Tolkien analogy again (never did like Narnia), I've arrived at the Grey Havens, and I can see the Undying Lands rising in the distance.<br /><br />Just sayin'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-17681569537722370992012-08-18T15:12:58.269+02:002012-08-18T15:12:58.269+02:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-76692393092866918912012-08-18T05:38:35.719+02:002012-08-18T05:38:35.719+02:00Well you've so far survived the dark night of ...Well you've so far survived the dark night of the body - and now to get thru the dark night of the soul.<br /><br />An NO in Summer? I think there is a plenary indulgence, applicable to a gazillion souls, for every NO suffered thru in August.tubbshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16165944443534843179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-72322841202773264732012-08-18T04:05:58.744+02:002012-08-18T04:05:58.744+02:00Miss White,
I don't really have anything to o...Miss White,<br /><br />I don't really have anything to offer except that a) I spent several years where you are now, b) it's horrible, and c) I'll remember you at Mass on Sunday. I wish I could offer some sort of wisdom, but as I can't, you'll have my prayers instead.<br /><br />Christ's peace and joy to you,<br /><br />Katherine~Katherine~https://www.blogger.com/profile/12138257993961072758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-19929592146360570472012-08-18T02:10:12.882+02:002012-08-18T02:10:12.882+02:00My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength i...My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.Job's comforternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-69017446165726133522012-08-18T00:48:51.387+02:002012-08-18T00:48:51.387+02:00It's very easy, isn't it, to sit smugly ba...It's very easy, isn't it, to sit smugly back and say, "well feelings aren't important, so it's your fault for giving in to them".<br /><br />Easy, that is, until you've lived through year after year of emptiness, with nothing but a blank space where the Faith used to live and grow and bloom.<br /><br />It's a good thing that God understands that the heart is a crucial element in the Christian's life and that the emotions are a faculty of the rational soul without which the life of the Faith dries up. I'd certainly be much worse off if He endorsed your rather callous and dismissive point of view.<br /><br />The exercise of intellect and will, the foundation of the Faith, is alone not enough to sustain us ordinary folk down here on the messy and uncomfortable planet earth. If it were, the Stripping of the Altars, the banality of the modern liturgy, the infantilising and uglifying of modern catechesis would be of no consequence.<br /><br />But humans aren't machines, which perhaps is the lesson I'm supposed to be taking away from this rather uncomfortable period of my life. <br /><br />I certainly used to be in the habit of writing such things as you have offered here, Bruno. Now I am certainly more able to see first hand how unhelpful it is to treat people's troubles so dismissively. <br /><br />Job's comforters, I think people call it. Hilary Jane Margaret Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03771332473693479830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-41950252055687916612012-08-17T12:19:05.272+02:002012-08-17T12:19:05.272+02:00A very interesting post. Thank you for sharing.
W...A very interesting post. Thank you for sharing.<br /><br />What you wrote touched a chord in me, because I often detect in myself the same caving to the temptation to wallow in my own feelings instead of caring about realities. Mass is the perfect example. The important thing is what happens there and not what I feel or what I 'get' from it. Still, I often complain about the priest, the singing, the reader or just about anything else... instead of realising the wonderful miracle that no amount of human imperfections or liturgical extravagance can obscure.<br /><br />Something similar happens, I think, with caring about my own feelings when performing an act of devotion, be it prayer or something so simple as writing 'In Christ' at the end of a letter. It is again a temptation to worry about what I feel when I do those things, because the important thing is actually doing (or not doing) God's will. <br /><br />Feelings are something passive. They are something we experience, not something we do. As such, they are basically irrelevant for salvation. What matters is what we do.<br /><br />Feelings can be a gift from God to help us love him and our neighbour or can be a gift from God to provide us a with a challenge in order to make our love deeper, but of themselves they are of little consequence.<br /><br />Best regards from Spain.<br /><br />In Christ. :)Brunohttp://infocatolica.com/blog/espadadedoblefilo.phpnoreply@blogger.com