tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post3407357255861891432..comments2023-11-03T12:44:19.948+01:00Comments on Orwell's Picnic ~: "Last one out turn off the lights."Hilary Jane Margaret Whitehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03771332473693479830noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-21450064952713691082017-05-14T03:34:09.897+02:002017-05-14T03:34:09.897+02:00I am from miners in England. And my great great gr...I am from miners in England. And my great great grandad said that some children who worked the mines in victorian times were called "trappers "they used to work the air doors down the mines.to open and shut them.they worked 18 hours a day mainly in pitch black and alone.and were only given one candle to last them a shift because candles were expensive in them days especially for miners.I'm only hearing 3rd hand but my great great grandad said that the said it was said slightly different. It was "make sure he puts his light out. And closes the door behind us."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-73213484542407857982013-04-26T02:04:54.556+02:002013-04-26T02:04:54.556+02:00i joined the ssm's(now fsm's) quite a few ...i joined the ssm's(now fsm's) quite a few years ago & left after 3 years. the 1st thing that set me on my road to leaving was that i wanted to bring one of the girls i was working with ( i worked with prostitutes)home to the convent for dinner. this was met with looks of horror - she's a prostitute!. i said no one would know or would they likje her to wear a sign. really, would Jesus have said that?<br />all the women in my class left (all 4 of us) as did the 1 woman in the class after us. one of my classmates is now an episcopal priest.<br />i have a feeling we were one the last classes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-71438938177235289242011-09-01T06:45:15.538+02:002011-09-01T06:45:15.538+02:00I don't think anyone raising children has enou...I don't think anyone raising children has enough time to make anything look unappealing. I'm sorry I'm not spiritual enough to enjoy the vigor of my healthy children from the time the first one arises 6am until the last one drops off at 12am. Perhaps you could come over and take them for a run around the block so I could go to the dentist or take a nap? I'd be happy to give you my address. - KarenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-66580364215474232742011-08-30T23:13:31.487+02:002011-08-30T23:13:31.487+02:00Do you think that Traditional Catholic mothers mak...Do you think that Traditional Catholic mothers make motherhood and wifehood look unappealing because of their constant complaints about their "sacrifice" and their "suffering" and their "martyrdom" instead of just enjoying it. <br /><br />I mean a few generations ago we were burying 50% of our children before they reached adulthood. Vis a vis that modern day mothering doesn't look so bad.M. Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11628512667279950596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-5796529525645130882011-08-27T23:03:28.654+02:002011-08-27T23:03:28.654+02:00Lydia, I am so happy for you! Hopefully I have bee...Lydia, I am so happy for you! Hopefully I have been over-generalizing here and there are many more TLM men like your future husband.Catherinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-35312073961690433632011-08-27T10:35:23.584+02:002011-08-27T10:35:23.584+02:00Catherine
In one week's time I am due to marry...Catherine<br />In one week's time I am due to marry such a man: from an Australian TLM parish. He was anything but passive!<br /><br />LydiaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-60627577329969082292011-08-27T07:45:40.509+02:002011-08-27T07:45:40.509+02:00Mrs Doyle, the mens' non-assertiveness seemed ...Mrs Doyle, the mens' non-assertiveness seemed like just one aspect of the unfortunate passivity and fatalism I saw in the Australian TLM community. "God wants me to accept my suffering and we're nothing like those self-improving Protestants, so I'll just sit here until He throws a wife/job/money at me." I kept attending TLM masses there until I left the country, but I never really got involved with the community socially, because I found the attitude quite damaging both to my mental health and to my faith. Yes guys, God wants you to trust in Him, but I'm sure He wouldn't be opposed to you politely introducing yourself to the unmarried 32-year-old woman who's still living with her parents and four adult sisters.Catherinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-43583403210877639212011-08-25T18:39:15.106+02:002011-08-25T18:39:15.106+02:00That's because the content of "lay vocati...That's because the content of "lay vocations" are booooooring and involve things like checking up on your actual neighbors. Everyone wants to be a star in their own little religious movie instead.- KarenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-88334946654952653012011-08-25T17:21:57.801+02:002011-08-25T17:21:57.801+02:00Nice one Catherine! I knew there was another more ...Nice one Catherine! I knew there was another more sensible reason! Why is that?<br /><br />M.S Abeln: <br />Reason why monasteries were founded? <br /><br />I don't know enough about the history of monasteries to comment, but I do know that we need a much better understanding of a lay vocation, which actually incorporates elements of the other vocations - for instance, the idea of spiritual motherhood/fatherhood (from marriage), the need for detachment, contemplation and obedience to God's will whilst living in the world (learning from the vows of some religious) - obviously properly understood in the lay context.<br />Do you ever hear priests talk about this in terms of lay vocations? Nup. We always get the impression that unless you've got a tick next to one of the recognised vocations - the ones on the posters - everyone else is sort of let off the hook and left to fend for themselves.Mrs Doylenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-21862109784194177722011-08-24T23:46:50.756+02:002011-08-24T23:46:50.756+02:00Mrs Doyle, I apologize for the bluntness. But from...Mrs Doyle, I apologize for the bluntness. But from my experience inside Australian TLM circles, the young men aren't avoiding you because you intimidate them, but because they wouldn't know dating-related assertiveness if they were hit in the face with a censer full of it.Catherinenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-51051080008811782472011-08-24T23:11:17.620+02:002011-08-24T23:11:17.620+02:00SORRY THAT WAS ME AGAIN - KarenSORRY THAT WAS ME AGAIN - KarenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-15910204591989352152011-08-24T23:09:26.030+02:002011-08-24T23:09:26.030+02:00Exactly, Mr. Albeln. When you were a child, that ...Exactly, Mr. Albeln. When you were a child, that is how it was. It isn't like that now. The only two available answers are:<br /><br />1) put your kids in daycare so you can have a career, and also, get to use a bathroom with a door on it alone<br /><br />2) be a martyr homeschool mommy who gets made fun of for not dyeing her grey by Kathy Shaidle<br /><br />Nobody is coming up with any other ones. Occasionally some jerkwad like John Reilly will point out the creepy, isolating, antisocial nature of many religious homeschoolers, but they seem to believe we're all keeping out kids out of school because of some kind of feminine nonsense, not so that they can learn to read or anything important like that.<br /><br />I think there is another really weird and creepy thing going on, which is that adults in conservative circles are unwilling to accept that children grow up and become adults themselves. I do not know of one single marriage among the young religious people of my acquaintance that was not opposed by their parents. And these are good marriages between people who were ready. Nobody is *really* interested in getting young people married, because that means they'll have to accept that they have stepped off the stage. So I wonder if this is going on with the new vocations also - it's a way to not have to defy your family.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-86247606948463441092011-08-24T22:28:53.416+02:002011-08-24T22:28:53.416+02:00Mrs. Doyle:
Oh, and multiple degrees are probably...Mrs. Doyle:<br /><br />Oh, and multiple degrees are probably intimidating to most men. Please note how relatively few men are in higher degree programs these days, so it will likely get much worse. However, I've noticed that women with multiple degrees often seek the same in their men, making the situation doubly worse. My experience with female medical students at parties is dismal in this regard; however, female law students were always willing to date me.<br /><br />This, of course, is a commie plot to reduce birthrates and to break up traditional culture.Mark S. Abelnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06692448528819277158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-72196616286463807302011-08-24T22:16:51.578+02:002011-08-24T22:16:51.578+02:00Karen,
When I was a child, there were lots of fam...Karen,<br /><br />When I was a child, there were lots of families nearby and the adults and older relatives all looked after us. Nowadays you can't just trust people as much, and they may not be available.<br /><br />Of course, the socialists would just have all the children in day care and the public schools all day while the mother does some activity specifically approved of by the State.<br /><br /><br />Mrs Doyle:<br /><br />It is difficult living in the world and having a deep spiritual life. Wasn't it for this reason that monasteries were developed?Mark S. Abelnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06692448528819277158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-29354780707263844932011-08-24T19:08:21.676+02:002011-08-24T19:08:21.676+02:00Karen, I think you make a good point here.
I was ...Karen, I think you make a good point here.<br /><br />I was going to get a bit huffy at the suggestion that the new-conservative wave is dangerous to the new religious orders in the US, but I can see the link now.<br /><br />I will certainly not assume that all young women who join the convent in the States do it for the same reason, but I remember when Oprah had those sisters (was it the Nashville Dominicans?) and hearing the different reasons as to why some of the young sisters joined was a bit odd.<br />I remember quite a few of them saying that they had been very successful in their careers but felt that there was something 'missing'.<br />Now, if it is that they actually had a calling to that vocation, all well and good. <br />But I did get the impression that they found a secular career in compatible with being a 'good Catholic' and having the ability to have a very deep spiritual life at the same time.<br /><br />Maybe, I'm reading into this and being slightly unfair, seeing as though I have a particular lay vocation which emphasizes this. <br /><br />Seeing as though I don't live in the US, it's hard for me to comment specifically, but I do recognise that same attitude to a woman's life that Karen mentions in some majorly trad circles in Australia.<br />I find myself wondering if some people I know (from these 'subcultures') think that because I've been at uni for years getting a few qualifications, that would automatically mean that I wouldn't be interested in getting married and having children. <br />Maybe that's why none of the men speak to me?!Mrs Doylenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-23823129889226022202011-08-24T17:53:49.334+02:002011-08-24T17:53:49.334+02:00Oops that was me! And also, the answer to this is...Oops that was me! And also, the answer to this is domestic service, understood as an apprenticeship to housewifery. But I don't know how we're getting there from here because the conservativesphere is full of people who think they're extra awesome for never showering without infant accompaniment and having no life. It's kind of like the probability of reforming medical school. - KarenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-9621532640485906352011-08-24T17:51:05.448+02:002011-08-24T17:51:05.448+02:00I'd like to hear your views of how American-st...<i>I'd like to hear your views of how American-style conservatism is harming the new religious orders.</i><br /><br />You didn't ask me but I have an opinion.<br /><br />I don't know what our hostess would say, but what I see going on is that conservative subcultures in the US have put young women in a hopeless bind: they've made marriage and motherhood completely unattractive, but demonized honorable careers. They've made it clear that if a young woman wants anything, anything at all, and also marriage and children, she is entirely on her own, just as women are in the outside, mainstream culture. <br /><br />Being a good wife and mother in conservative circles means years of inadequate sleep, sometimes dangerously inadequate. It means being left completely alone with small children for hours and hours on end, often with no transportation in a suburb where you can't walk anywhere. It means, very often, complete selfabnegation, to the point where young mothers don't have the resources to get personal grooming done, go to the dentist, or eat a meal with both hands *for years.* <br /><br />Now sure you can make a case that this is sanctifying, but at that point... why not just be a nun?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-54237122324011770102011-08-24T16:19:13.486+02:002011-08-24T16:19:13.486+02:00Unfortunately politics in the U.S. is so polarized...Unfortunately politics in the U.S. is so polarized that an individual is often forced to stand on one side of the fence or the other. It is nearly impossible to propose another way without attracting hordes of propagandists from the two parties.<br /><br />During the American Civil War. individuals had to choose one side or the other or face death. Archbishop Kenrick however, remained neutral during the war and faced brutal attacks by both sides, with many neutral Catholics being murdered by roving gangs. It was during this war that the great religious hospital orders grew tremendously. We still have a few around here, fabulously wealthy, but with few Sisters.<br /><br />Hilary, if you have the time and inclination, I'd like to hear your views of how American-style conservatism is harming the new religious orders.Mark S. Abelnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06692448528819277158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-58869028252286184582011-08-24T10:32:32.212+02:002011-08-24T10:32:32.212+02:00The modern enemies of the Church and those who see...The modern enemies of the Church and those who seek its destruction, whether within and without, have the same proposition for its "survival":<br /><br />"Out with all the religious mumbo jumbo, evangelisation and the moral crap and just concentrate on the social work". <br /><br />In their view that is all Jesus was about and his "love" has been redefined as the modern "lurve" where he would approve of and affirm everyone in whatever their proclivities and feelings, but particularly their feelings, lead them to.The Falconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08117926224704571323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-6471725973927122602011-08-24T10:24:50.088+02:002011-08-24T10:24:50.088+02:00Mostly I just don't feel like writing a book r...Mostly I just don't feel like writing a book right now. <br /><br />Maybe in ten years. If the Lord spares me.Hilary Jane Margaret Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03771332473693479830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-17928424984370788262011-08-24T04:15:21.771+02:002011-08-24T04:15:21.771+02:00I meant to add "all of it" (i.e. what yo...I meant to add "all of it" (i.e. what you have to say) worthy and interesting. Seriously, shop the book around.Gregorynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-38831661966085120512011-08-24T04:14:28.769+02:002011-08-24T04:14:28.769+02:00For someone who isn't really interested in nun...For someone who isn't really interested in nuns, you do seem to have a great deal to say on the subject. You should write up a precis of a book and shop it around.Gregorynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-59105234369702065392011-08-24T02:23:02.656+02:002011-08-24T02:23:02.656+02:00Well, as the subject of female religious (in early...Well, as the subject of female religious (in early modern France) was my speciality as a researcher, I "did the research myself" too, working from primary sources, and those were the conclusions I reached. I would be interested to know what you read. <br /><br />I am not certain, however, what it is precisely that you disagree with in my comment, or what makes the interpretation I laid out above vulnerable to feminism. If anything was to blame for the struggles of the active orders, it was women's families, especially in France, and not Rome or the Popes. I had thought this was a rather Catholic-friendly view, if anything. Also, I assure you that, although female, I am not generally regarded as much of a feminist.<br /><br />In any case, I have read the letters of Francois de Sales and those of the bishops of Lyon relevant to this case, and can say with some certainty (as much as is ever possible for a historian) that the history of the Visitation and the reason for its restriction to the cloister was as I have described it. <br /><br />L. LegaultAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-70874730438523318312011-08-24T00:58:47.037+02:002011-08-24T00:58:47.037+02:00The only form of religious life that will persever...The only form of religious life that will persevere to the end is the monastic form. I have always believed this. What is really lacking in the Catholic Church is an understanding of, and appreciation for, the monastic life. We really should look to the Orthodox to see how much monastic life is valued, even amongst those who live a completely secular life. It is not uncommon for the Orthodox to go and visit their local monastery on Sundays for the liturgy, and for spiritual guidance from the resident nuns or monks, or to visit for a longer period of time, in order to recharge one's "spiritual batteries" so to speak. And you find this is common amongst young and old. If it comes up in conversation that some young man or woman has entered a monastery, eyebrows are not raised and it is not a conversation killer. Becoming a monastic is seen as an acceptable vocation in life, not an aberration as it has become in the West. The Church needs to foster a better awareness of monastic life, especially among the young. The world needs prayer more than anything else.<br />LydiaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15895111.post-81321420932326290692011-08-23T22:03:36.580+02:002011-08-23T22:03:36.580+02:00That would be a book worth writing, SteveT.
&quo...That would be a book worth writing, SteveT. <br /><br />"The poor you will always have with you". And the young, the old, the sick ... I wonder if it is not sensible, as sometimes happens, for small local congregations of similar apostolate and spirituality to join up, or move, as the kind of work needed in an area changes. A well-thought-out definition at the beginning must make things easier. So the MCs and the CFRs both have an element in their constitutions that means they have to go where the poor people are. If an area becomes well-off, the CFRs are to leave. The MCs may not run hospitals, teach above a certain basic level, etc. <br /><br />But then St Dominic's first female foundation was for the education of the well-off or well-born. Seems a reasonable job, if carrying some dangers for religious life. <br /><br />St Thomas was a university professor. I don't suppose there's anything against a female religious doing the same thing. <br /><br />Etc. The point is that, while I quite understand your point of view, religious going out and doing stuff is perhaps harder to get right than monastic religious life, but it's not a bad thing. You might like br Paul Coleman's observations on the "religiousness" of religious life:<br /><a href="http://acertainhope.blogspot.com/2011/05/brother-and-priest.html" rel="nofollow">Brother and Priest</a>.berenikehttp://exlaodicea.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com